[Elizabeth]

I should be able to say, “May I ask what that money is earmarked for?” right? (The question under the question is: Is asking that too controlling?”)

I do the family finances. My husband works. We have 5 kids, ages 6-21.

Backstory: last night I asked my husband, “Do you have any cash?

I am thinking about taking the girls to the fair tomorrow night, and I only have $18 in my wallet.”

Him: “I have a little bit of cash, but it’s earmarked for something.”

Me: “I think I only need two more dollars.”
He puts a $20 on my desk.

I ask, “May I ask what the rest of the money is earmarked marked for?”

He said: “I don’t want to talk about that right now. You didn’t ask me how my day was, and I don’t want to give an account for $5.”

Me: “I think that’s minimization.”

He had withdrawn $80 cash. I recognize the problems with the above statements.
——
More background: He has been withdrawing $60-100 regularly, since the beginning of this year.

Previously, I collected receipts for cash items and they went in the budget spreadsheet along with the credit card items, but he stopped giving me receipts.

He’ll say, “Oh, it was from this or that.” And it is uncomfortable doing the asking.

I keep our budget like an envelope system in a spreadsheet, and each category gets funded monthly.

We each have our own spending money column.

He regularly overspends his. I told him if he’s going to do that, I’m going to credit myself an equal amount to that overspent (I am saving it).

Cash withdrawals simply get a negative amount in its column.

As the receipts come back, I simply move the money from whatever category it was spent to that negative cash balance.

For example, cash I give the kids for their events would get moved from the “kid activity” column to that negative cash balance.

But this withdrawing cash and not getting receipts back leaves a hole in the budget.

This is where I am asking if I am being too controlling.
I have a friend whose husband manages the finances in a way similar to the way I do it.

Except he is hyper controlling, down to not giving her access to all the money, and hassling her, for example, if she had extra grocery money left, and bought something else the kids needed, like clothing.

I don’t do that. My husband has a printout of the budget, along with all the accounts and login information.

When he asks for things that aren’t in the budget, I do my best to make it happen.

Like he wanted to loan our oldest son money to help him buy a truck when he graduated from college.

(The gift aspect comes in that we are charging him 5 percent interest, instead of what it would cost him to do a bank loan.)

$60-$100 withdrawals might not seem like much, but we are a family of 7, with two in college currently, income around $100,000. Five years ago, that was $60,000.

I have tried to explain to my husband that while he might be making a lot more than he was a few years ago, the cost of everything has gone through the roof, and we have expenses now that we didn’t back then.

(We used to be a car-free family, but now we have two cars, a commute, and teenage drivers.)

I ask if this is too controlling, because I am the one who has to find extra money in the budget to cover these cash withdrawals that aren’t accounted for. (Along with other overspending.)

He already spends well over the budget on non-necessities like fast food and tasty beverages.

(About $300/month, which means I haven’t been able to fund our “Home repair” budget in about a year…and the money I used to lend to our son was what was in our “Home repair” budget.)

These kinds of things add significant stress to me.

About five years ago, I told him if he couldn’t respect the work I was doing for the family finances, he would have to do it.

I handed everything over to him, with instructions, and he screwed it all up.

It took me four months to get it back on track.

I think he thinks of me as a magic genie who can just wave a wand and make his wishes materialize.

Can we have a healthy conversation about money?

No. I haven’t tried in well over a year.

This is why I am asking, where is the line between asking what I think is a reasonable question (What is that cash earmarked for?)

and being controlling, in the absence of any inclination on his part to sit down and talk about it?

[Scott]

I think this is a conversation to have with a marriage counselor not a financial counselor.

It seems you have different goals that you need to work through.

[Rick]

Quick glance at the info has me thinking
You all don’t have a joint budget
You have a budget

He doesn’t agree with it or all of it and he is actively finding ways around it

I have seen this with the person who grocery shops would get cash back as part of the grocery purchase.

Easy way and a hard to detect way to get $20-50 extra out for their personal use under the guise of “it’s for the family and I guess grocery prices are up”.

I think you may need a spending plan reboot.

Good luck with finding something that becomes a joint plan.

[Jennifer]

I’ve been married 27 years and things got better when we divided finances and could spend on what we wanted with no questions asked (within our budget.)

So, I would try to agree on what that number is (perhaps when he withdraws money without tellingyou what it’s for he gives you the same amount) then he might understand how you feel.

[Tomáš]

As Dave Ramsey would say you don’t have money problem but marriage problem … because he is not talking to you for what the money is spend (maybe it’s surprise in the making for you, we don’t know ) ….

And If he owerspend budget that is child behaviour not adult …

[Ashley]

This gave me a little anxiety reading. I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but yes, it does feel like he wants to have a little more control over his finances than you’ll allow him.

I understand things are tight and you are doing a wonderful job keeping the ship afloat.

There could be a million things going on, mental health wise, marriage wise.

I would make counseling a priority, yesterday, even if it’s not in the budget.

Especially if it’s not in the budget.

[Shannon]

Definitely need to see a marriage counselor to help you guys work through this issue.

But technically you didn’t have the money to lend to your son if it was in the home repair pot.

Now you don’t have money for home repairs?

[Audrey]

My husband has been in recovery for several years, but we went down a bumpy road for a bit.

Both before and after we recognized the addiction, he habitually hid money to spend it on alcohol.

When we were both really trying to get him sober, he decided to keep cards at home and his spending money for the month was given to him in cash – what he spent it on was his choice and not my responsibility, but there was no more after that.

This is a healthy way to be a supporter of sobriety without enabling or sacrificing your own boundaries, and it works well with finances as well.

Regarding the extra non-essential spending: my husband is also a big spender on what I consider frivolous junk energy drinks, snacks, etc.

We budget $X for his “wants” into family categories every month; when that’s spent, anything extra comes out of his allowance.

That way he doesn’t feel like he’s on his own but our family is not beholden to his impulsiveness.

For example, he gets one family-funded golf round per month; the second and third come out of his pocket.

It is important that he has a role in determining the amount of allowance – if you had him a fifty and tell him he’s on his own, then you’d be like your friend’s husband.

You doing the finances solo isn’t working; you need to work together to be on the same page.

[Nicole]

Let’s assume he’s not doing something nefarious with the money (for arguments sake) let’s “pretend” he’s just hoarding small amounts of money to buy you a big surprise or gift for upcoming birthday or anniversary.

That being said, I think in every budget there should be an “allowance” for each person.

Money that my husband and I both each get so we can spend it on whatever we want with no questions asked.

My husband and I do this, we each get 200/month.

This money we also spend on each other for gifts or sometimes to “take each other out” on a date night so it doesn’t have to come out of the normal budget.

Anyway, this way he can spend money on things I don’t care about like going to lunch with friends at work and I can spend money on face stuff or craft things etc.

we also buy our own clothes and shoes with our own money too.

That way if he wants expensive shoes vs Goodwill shoes that’s up to him.

So maybe start with a conversation about how to work in an allowance into the budget.

No more free cash otherwise.

Need receipts.

[Bri]

Is it too controlling to ask him what the money is earmarked for?
My opinion is yes.

Kind of.

Is him overspending beyond what’s agreed upon and potentially sabotaging your family financial picture too controlling on his part?

Also.

Yes. Kind of.

Although he may not consciously register that.

A question like “is that earmarked for personal spend or to be accounted for in the family budget?”

Keeps the accounting system viable without the level of control that can be really damaging to a relationship.

A prompt that may work is: “hey.

I noticed that instead of the agreed upon $xxx for personal spend over the last few months, it looks like you withdrew $yyy.

If that’s the new amount, are you available to look at the family finances with me to see where we can reduce spending to cover it?”

(The roles in our family are similar except in a smaller family.

My husband has a poor relationship with money and after 10 years of trying to have conversations about it, talking about money at almost any level is still hard.

He was unwilling to see outside counsel, so I’ve had to deal in-house.)

One thing that has helped is us calling me in that role “the accounting department” as opposed to me as a person. **I** am not controlling how much he spends.

I am the one in charge of making sure we have positive cash flow and equity.

Another solution we use is that, after my husband refused to talk with me about money and denied all of my requests, I have an envelope (I use YNAB) for our son and I that matches every dollar of his personal spend that allows me to spend as we want and need to without requiring a conversation.

I remind him of the solution periodically.
Good luck.

It’s a really unpleasant situation to be in.

[Amy]

It’s too hard to discern whether he has an addiction or is feeling controlled and not happy about it.

Really the only way to discuss is open non-judgmental communication in coming up with a plan that you both agree with not one that you dictate to him.

Either with a therapist or try on your own but try to have a loving convo about it.

Tell him how you need his support because “keeping the lights on” every month is stressful for you. You want to be in an equal partnership and don’t want to end up being the “mother” and him being the petulant “teen”.

Those dynamics are horrible for marriages and divorces are even more expensive.

Let him be part of the solution not just the problem.

By him not wanting to decide the pot of money things come from is showing his “teen” self.

You can change this around saying you appreciate him and that you need his input.

Good luck!

[Jeremy]

in my opinion a marriage problem not really a money problem.

I’ve been in your shoes and it’s REALLY tough when two people aren’t on the same page financially.

Finances were a constant battle in my marriage.

Couple things that helped us along.

I am the keeper of the finances and payer of the bills, spouse doesn’t want anything to do with it.

We had a few hard conversations about what our larger life goals were and we set those up for autodrafts that we never saw.

We made a goal for retirement, that came out first.

We made a goal for certain savings buckets and that came out first.

After that, we each got an allowance and what was left was going to get spent.

My natural inclination is to still try and save more of “what was left” but my spouse always viewed that as me “moving the goalposts.”

From her perspective, she had agreed to save and certain amount which meant we were spending the rest.

When I tried to save more, she saw that as unfair and controlling.

I can see that.

From my perspective, it’s important that you frame this is you each have some freedom over a certain amount of your budget.

It can’t be you’re “giving him an allowance.” You’re not his mother and you don’t hand out money based on good behavior.

You each have some say and freedom over a certain junk of money.

And it’s going to be tough, but you’re also going to have to let go of some control.

He get’s to spend his piece on whatever he wants, end of story.

If he wants to literally light it on fire in front of your eyes, that’s his choice.

Maybe having a little more control over “his money” makes a little easier to be more mindful of the joint budget and how his spending is contributing to family budget surplus/shortfall.

But these are all just band aids and the underlying issue is you’re not on the same page with your financial goals.

My little suggestions might help on the fringes, but you’ll probably want a professional to help actually cure the root of the problem.

Good luck! Money in a relationship is TOUGH!!!

[Mowunmi]

Similar to my former marriage. I agree with others – get a marriage therapist (preferably Gottman licensed) ASAP.

This is a red flashing alert that you are very misaligned on goals, dreams and direction.

If I project my story onto yours (since we don’t have his side if the story or details), ETA here.

You are over functioning in regards to finances so it’s puts both of you in a parent-child/dependent scenario.

He’s being too passive in finances.

Frustration for you, resentment from him.

Things only work where there’s isn’t too great of a skills gap.

In my case, I was a Dave Ramsey debt free person while he was a Rob Kiyosaki smart debt person.

I handled all the finances because I cared a lot and he wanted highlights only.

Over time, it evolved to me saving so he could spend. I started to view him as irresponsible (he wasn’t) and he viewed me as controlling.

This dynamic will always cause this.

To save sanity, we seperated finances into 3 with everyone having access to logins to everything.

2 years later, I had a savings nest egg and he had significant credit card debt. It caused even more frustration because I now had a decade of financial proficiency and he had to play a hard catch up.

Also, when asked about the credit card debt, the answers were very vague and eventually I was accused of controlling.

That’s a “shut up” answer – something said where you feel forced to shut up and not poke further.

There are usually maggots under there.

In my case, it was a mistress (there were other marital issues that led to this, not money). By the divorce, he was 30k in debt.

My credit score shot up from 710 to 780 a few months afterwards.

I’m not saying any of this is happening for you.

What I am saying is that your marital finances have hit a very bad dynamic and this is a flashing red alert for you guys to get help and get on the same page otherwise resentment and contempt will sink your marriage.

Plan on 3 – 6 months worth of therapy.

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